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jacinto
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Fri 7 Jul - 23:42

et spiderman :




by swaffette

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/swaffette/no_cache/spiderman.wrl
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 1:48

Going back to the beginning I start my replies:

isa 15 Juin 2005

Thanks isa your translation was easy to follow Smile


pf 26 Juin 2005

Hi pf if you are still here, very sorry I never replied some how I never had this thread set to notify me of messages Sad
Thanks much for the kind words said about Seamless Smile
It would be very nice to get some of my tutorials translated to English. My tutorial:

Making an Avatar from Immediate Spheres and Cylinders

Should be the easiest to translate because there are very few words in it. It relies more on images to show what to do than explaining concepts. This tutorial almost needs no words but words do help I am sure. I noticed too Alain say seamless needs a US style keyboard and I see this come up on other French sites where I notice seamless being talked about. However since I introduced the tool bar this should no longer be the case I hope. If there is a tutorial where you can not use a French Keyboard or it is awkward if a certain short cut key can not be used please let me know so I can make this a priority to change.

Realwtl 26 Juin 2005

Thanks for wanting to try Seamless Realwtl. Hope there is now time it is the summer holidays?
I will be more than happy to answer any questions you post here (I have set this thread to notify me of any new messages Smile

thyme 29 Juin 2005

thyme? o its me before this thyme so I have already answered this far hehehe
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 2:28

Alain 21 Nov 2005

Thanks much Alain for you help I very much regret not seeing this and joining in. My deepest apologies!!!

papillon0791 21 Nov 2005

Dear Papillon Alain showed how to export only a single part as a wrl. A blaxxun avatar studio av is made up of lots of tiny parts and this is why you are only getting little bits of you avatar. To output the whole avatar please see this page:

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/immediate_av/output.html

First you will need to open the scene tree by clicking on this button.

Let me know if you still have questions. I promise i will reply faster to this thread now I have it set to notify me Smile

hugs Smile

peter le cochon 25 Déc 2005

Thanks peter, I seem to remember it was stinking hot for Christmas with plenty of flies to go around Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 2:50

Isa 19 Juin 2006

Thanks very much Isa Smile I have posted a link on the seamless forum back to here so that others can more easily notice your nice message Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 16:22

Ah mais je pourrais mettre une de mes images là !!!! Non ?
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 18:02

Bah , LOL , Pam , Monet et Renoir sont montrables en collège quand même , non ?

Jacinto a commencé ce talk sur " Fragonard VS Fragonard " , il suit son fil et moi le sien ....
C'est " flesh VS skeleton" LOL ....

Bah tu as toujours fait montre d'intelligence dans ta venue ici , je ne doute pas que tu saches mettre les images qui "passeront " auprès de notre jeune et moins jeune "public" ...

ps : isa t'as écris récemment , alors j'en ai pas rajouté , mais comme elle j'espère que tu vas bien .

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 18:09

huuumm je sais pas si tu as lu le texte de jacinto , Pam , c'est pas ininteressant :

Fragonard montrant la chair , son cousin bossant sur la machine humaine ...

jacinto dit que ça n'intersses que l 'ingénieur de voir "comment c' est fait " , quand il s'agit de 3D .........

voilà pourquoi c'est écrit pour Thyme , dans son thread "seamless" ....

excuse moi si je résume mal , jacinto

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 18:59

ok donc ... j'en suis toujours a Grasse moi... hein et merci pour Renoir je connaissais pas jolie Smile

donc le peintre Fragonard est né a Grasse ou il y a un musée .... déja ca ...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Honor%C3%A9_
Fragonard alors pourquoi la parfumerie s'appelle Fragonard ... j'en sais toujours rien Sad

ouf j'ai enfin trouvé !:
http://www.fragonard.com/@fr/1/1/1/article.asp

Quote :
C'est en 1926, en hommage au célèbre peintre Jean-honoré Fragonard, qu'elle prend le nom de Parfumerie Fragonard. Depuis, chaque jour, nous y produisons nos parfums, cosmétiques et savons dans un cadre respectueux de la tradition.

ah ben suis contente de moi oust maintenant Smile lol ca me tracassait

coucou Smile Pam

flower isa
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jacinto
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Sat 8 Jul - 19:36

Quote :
...On peut bien réfléchir sur la perfection de la structure filaire en 3d informatique et se demander si elle ne represente pas le visuel ultime pour un informaticiens, "le signifiant" le plus esthetiquement visuel (le code informatique donné a voir comme l'interieur , la disection, l'ecorché).
...
je m autocite
Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 2:52

Hi Jacinto, Isa and Alain and All Smile and thanks Alain for all that work translating!
Sounds like it is saying years ago there were artist who studied the science of the human body like the muscles and tendons and bones to create art? This was what Michael Angelo did I heard and because of this there were rumours that he ate dead people. Also Leonardo da Vinci approached art with a lot of scientific theory too I heard.
There are artists who say that science has nothing to do with art too.
I don't read many books but one of the books that had a great impact on me as a teenager (and I am sure still today) was the One Straw Revolution by Masanobu Fukuoka.

Fukuoka wrote much about how all of man's striving for knowledge is futile and that science never can enlighten us (Zen Buddhist type Philosophy). He also wrote in another book "The Natural Way of Farming" that if you dissect a beautiful woman all you are left with is a bloody mass of tissue as an example of science failing to bring humans any closer to understanding nature. Well I can agree that some times images look nicer when not dissected heheh. But first I turn to chocolate for answers. What about opening a bar of chocolate? does not the image and aroma of the contents appeal more to the senses than the wrapper? depends on how good the wrapper is and how good the chocolate is Smile

There are those who view a lot of man made creations as beautiful art too. Like fibre optics as I saw in jacinto's translation and I think elegantly written computer code has a beauty I feel much the same as a great work of art.

Back in the early 90s when I was working on a home brew computer I did not want to put a case around it because it would hide all the beautiful circuitry Smile

I have tried making avatars by measuring proportions and though this has helped me greatly I have also experienced how this alone can lead to ugly work or at best what feels just like a poor imitation of reality. I think an artist naturally beautifies what they see and so a painting is much more than just a poor substitute for reality and the same applies to 3d art. So my conclusion is if you want to make beautiful 3d art one should use science but also feel free to interpret reality the way the imagination wants to see it.

I often think about this subject especially when I make avatars.
Sorry if I completely misunderstood the topic lol I will be only to happy to explain more about seamless, how you can utilise hand drawn curves and join parts to other parts seamlessly and animation and so on Mr.Red
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alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 12:44

Hello Thyme Smile

here the link for frenchies :

http://www.citerre.org/fukuokamct.htm

it is in french



Quote :
L'Agriculture naturelle
de Masanobu Fukuoka


"La révolution d'un seul brin de paille" , de Masanobu Fukuoka


and I began the translation :

Quote :


Bonjour Jacinto, Isa et Alain et tous et merci Alain de tout ce travail de traduction !
On dirait qu'il y a des années des artistes ont étudié la science du corps humain comme les muscles et les tendons et les os pour créer l'art ?
C'est ce qu'a fait Michel Ange j'ai entendu dire et pour cette raison il y avait des rumeurs qu'il a mangé les personnes mortes.
En outre Leonardo da Vinci a approché l'art avec beaucoup de théorie scientifique également.
Il y a aussi des artistes qui disent que la science n'a rien à faire avec l'art .
Je ne lis pas beaucoup de livres mais un des livres qui ont eu un grand impact sur moi comme un adolescent (et encore aujourd'hui , je suis sûr) ce fut One Straw Revolution de Masanobu Fukuoka.

Fukuoka a écrit beaucoup au sujet de la façon dont l'homme essaye d'obtenir la connaissance , considérant cela futile car cette science ne peut jamais nous éclairer (type philosophie de bouddhiste zen).
Il a également écrit dans un autre livre, « L'Agriculture naturelle », que si vous disséquez une belle femme il ne vous restera qu' une masse sanglante de tissus , c'est un exemple de ce la science n'approche pas l'homme de la connaissance de la nature .
Bon je dois ademttre que parfois les images semblent plus belles quand heheh ce n'est pas disséqué.
Mais d'abord je me tourne vers le chocolat pour quelque réponse.
Que diriez-vous d'ouvrir une barre de chocolat ? l'image et l'arome du contenu fait-elle davantage appel aux sens que l'emballage ? Cela dépend de la façon dont bon l'emballage est beau et de la façon dont le chocolat est bon .
Il y a ceux qui regardent beaucoup de créations humaines en tant que bel art aussi. Comme les fibres optiques citées dans la traduction de jacinto et moi je pense que le code informatique écrit d'une manière élégante a une réelle beauté , je le ressens un peu comme une grande oeuvre d'art.

Dans les années 90 quand je travaillais à un réseau d'ordinateur à la maison , je n'ai pas voulu mettre un cache autour parce que ça cacherait tous les beaux circuits .
J'ai essayé de faire des avatars en mesurant des proportions et bien que ceci m'ait aidé considérablement j'ai également éprouvé comment cela peut mener à un travail laid ou au mieux à une imitation pauvre de la réalité.
Je pense qu'un artiste embellit naturellement ce qu'il voit et ainsi une peinture est beaucoup plus que juste un produit de remplacement pauvre pour la réalité et la même chose s'applique à l'art 3d.
Ainsi ma conclusion est que si vous voulez faire du bel art 3d art utilisez la science mais en vous sentant également libre pour interpréter la réalité avec imagination .
Je pense souvent à ce sujet particulièrement quand je fais des avatars.
Désolé si j'ai mal compris la question lol , mais je serai heureux d'expliquer plus au sujet de seamless , comment vous pouvez utiliser les courbes et joindre des pièces à d'autres pièces etanimer et ainsi de suite .
.

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 13:10

Hello Thyme Smile


Quote :
Hi Jacinto, Isa and Alain and All and thanks Alain for all that work translating!
Sounds like it is saying years ago there were artist who studied the science of the
human body like the muscles and tendons and bones to create art? This was what Michael
Angelo did I heard and because of this there were rumours that he ate dead people.
Also Leonardo da Vinci approached art with a lot of scientific theory too I heard.
There are artists who say that science has nothing to do with art too.
Je trouve que tu te trompes lourdement sur l'acte de dissection:
La dissection du corps humain dans son contexte historique,
est un dépassement (comme la découverte que la terre est ronde http://1100f.free.fr/tout_sur_galile.htm , la perspective)
c est, un geste de courage contre l obscurantisme,
et toutes les croyances , et grâce a tout ces génies scientifiques ou artistiques qui à cette époque
ancienne se sont révolté, contre les lois établies de la mystification de l églises et du pouvoir .
C'est grâce a eux que notre monde a pu avancé, par exemple:
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/actualites/celebrations2004/pare.htm
et PERSONNE N'A MANGE DE MORT.


tu dis aussi et je réponds sans sortir trop du contexte dans lequel tu écris,
"Il y a des artistes qui disent que la science n'a rien à faire avec l'art aussi"

Il y a une question qui me vient:
penses tu que l'informatique soit une science ?
Quote :
I don't read many books but one of the books that had a great impact on me as a
teenager (and I am sure still today) was the One Straw Revolution by Masanobu Fukuoka.

Fukuoka wrote much about how all of man's striving for knowledge is futile and that
science never can enlighten us (Zen Buddhist type Philosophy). He also wrote in
another book "The Natural Way of Farming" that if you dissect a beautiful woman
all you are left with is a bloody mass of tissue as an example of science failing
to bring humans any closer to understanding nature. Well I can agree that some
times images look nicer when not dissected heheh.
je doit lire un peu sur Masanobu Fukuoka avant de te repondre.
Mais je ne crois pas en la religion zen ou autre....
Pour moi la science n'a rien a faire de la croyance.
L'art peut-être, dans sa représentation.
Quote :
But first I turn to chocolate
for answers. What about opening a bar of chocolate? does not the image and aroma
of the contents appeal more to the senses than the wrapper? depends on how good
the wrapper is and how good the chocolate is

There are those who view a lot of man made creations as beautiful art too. Like fibre
optics as I saw in jacinto's translation and I think elegantly written computer code
has a beauty I feel much the same as a great work of art.........
je trouve qu'un code propre est tres bien , mieux bien sûr qu un code mal fait,
je dis simplement que cela n'interesse que le programmeur, l' informaticien,

Un tableau mal construit est généralement raté.mais on ne peut pas comparer un tableau mal contruit avec un code mal ecrit :

Un code mal écrit peut donner exactement le même resultat qu'un code bien écrit car, un code s'applique juste a répondre à un certain nombre de calculs et que, si ces calculs donnent le bon resultat , et bien le monde se fout de savoir si le code est propre ou pas.

Alors, qu'un tableau mal construit et raté pour tous.

Je pense qu'un artiste est libre de voir "LE MONDE" comme il le veut. C'est sa Liberté et, contraindre cela, c'est empècher le développement artistique.


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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 15:37

c est quoi cette traduction de fibre optique?
heinnn Alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 15:54

LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL oui j'ai vu jacinto !!!!!

attends , dis donc tu va plus vite que mes possiblités de traduc LOL
Quote :

of the telegraphic structure in data-processing 3D

it was a stupid translation LOL , Tyme ,

of

Quote :
setRenderMode('Wireframe')


indeed , noting change about what Thyme wrote ,
I finnished to translate what he wrote , but jacinto answered before , LOL

so I must translate what jacinto wrote LOL arghhhhhhh Smile


nice to have you both here indeed Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 16:44

that :



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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 19:50

Surprised)

by Alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Mon 10 Jul - 20:19

oui oui pas "fibres optiques" LOL Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Tue 11 Jul - 1:55

Hello Jacinto and Alain Smile

First let me say I am not sure I understand the heart of the topic being discussed here sorry and also I must point out very few English speaking people understand half of what I try to communicate lol

Do I believe data processing is a science?
I believe everything in the universe is determined by scientific law (that is not yet all understood and perhaps never will be) and I much doubt there is any intelligent force that determines scientific law and I much doubt any information processor would be able to deal this much information at this speed. The processor would have to be more complicated than the universe itself and then how would it be able to understand itself?
Though I am a great fan of science and reason I believe only a portion of the human mind processes information using the intellect. Life is mostly a subjective experience rather than an objective understanding of how it all works.
This is much the same as saying that an adult with all his or her intellectual sophistication does not necessarily understand art, nature or life in general, any better than an infant.

When music is composed one "feels" for the future notes rather than calculating them intellectually so I would say most data processing is not done in a scientific way. (Art is not understood by numbers) In the future computers may be able to compose much better music through science but I am talking about how humans compose music currently with human brains.

The one straw revolution is not about religion by the way. However it is much influenced by eastern philosophy.

Fukuoka was once a scientist who became disillusioned with science but did not turn to religion for answers as far as I can understand from this book.

If we look at all the problems the world is facing today it is challenging to argue science has benefited humanity however I think it is a challenge to argue people are happier without science. Humans I believe are naturally curious and derive a lot of pleasure from novel experiences that arise through utilising knowledge.

Sorry I feel I have probably strayed way off the topic being discussed here Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Tue 11 Jul - 10:20

hello Smile

i don't sure i understand all but :



Quote :
Humans I believe are naturally curious and derive a lot of pleasure from novel experiences that arise through utilising knowledge.

yes I agree with but so much the man with science will be able to make miracles, which he will also be able to destroy ... because human is born with
sorry if I am quoted subject but I meant ca...


flower isa good day for all Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Tue 11 Jul - 11:09

Hello Thyme and world


Quote :
First let me say I am not sure I understand the heart of the topic being
discussed here sorry and also I must point out very few English speaking
people understand half of what I try to communicate lol

Do I believe data processing is a science?
I believe everything in the universe is determined by scientific law
(that is not yet all understood and perhaps never will be) and I much
doubt there is any intelligent force that determines scientific law
and I much doubt any information processor would be able to deal this
much information at this speed. The processor would have to be more
complicated than the universe itself and then how would it be able
to understand itself?
Though I am a great fan of science and reason I believe only a portion
of the human mind processes information using the intellect. Life is
mostly a subjective experience rather than an objective understanding
of how it all works.
This is much the same as saying that an adult with all his or her
intellectual sophistication does not necessarily understand art,
nature or life in general, any better than an infant.

When music is composed one "feels" for the future notes rather than calculating
them intellectually so I would say most data processing is not done in a
scientific way. (Art is not understood by numbers) In the future computers
may be able to compose much better music through science but I am talking
about how humans compose music currently with human brains.



j'ai tout compris Thyme
c'est juste, et je suis en accord avec toi sur cette partie de ce que tu ecrit



Quote :
The one straw revolution is not about religion by the way. However it is much
influenced by eastern philosophy.

Là je suis beaucoup moins d'accord:
prosélitisme ?
Philosophie orientale = dieu, Au dela, ou religions...
Philosophie normale = non dieu, non au dela, non religions ...


Quote :
If we look at all the problems the world is facing today it is challenging to
argue science has benefited humanity however I think it is a challenge to
argue people are happier without science.

Heureux sans science?
Re proselistisme
Smile
Quote :

Humans I believe are naturally
curious and derive a lot of pleasure from novel experiences that arise
through utilising knowledge.

Dans quelle secte es tu?
hahahahahaha Very Happy


Quote :
Sorry I feel I have probably strayed way off the topic being discussed here
C'est pas toi qui es hors sujet, c'est moi , puisque je pense parler de ton programme d'avatars seamless.
Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Tue 11 Jul - 11:24

isa wrote:
hello Smile

i don't sure i understand all but :



Quote :
Humans I believe are naturally curious and derive a lot of pleasure from novel experiences that arise through utilising knowledge.

yes I agree with but so much the man with science will be able to make miracles, which he will also be able to destroy ... because human is born with
sorry if I am quoted subject but I meant ca...


flower isa good day for all Smile

kikou..
l informatique n est Pas une science !!
bonne journée aussi
Very Happy Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Tue 11 Jul - 11:40

hope jacinto will follow with his translator , LOL


art and science ......

we had these talks sometimes on blaxx chat in 2003 ! , Thyme ... Smile

old times good times LOL

http://static.flickr.com/46/138667612_49a297b1ab_o_d.jpg

"The man who measures the sky " ,
"l'uomo che misura le nuvole ",
Jan Fabre



1988.
Scultura in bronzo
285 x 125 x 80 cm.

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Tue 11 Jul - 13:40

je c est pas qui l a ecrit:
...la pensee..... se proportionne insensiblement aux objets qui l'occupent
et se sont les grandes occasions qui font les grands Hommes.

hahaha Smile

une chanson, je s est pas de qui:


Dans les sous sols d'un parking
Un kangourou se cognait
Sur le plafonds trop bas
Il s'assoma
Il gisait
Et ce fut une surprise
De le voir revenir a lui.


Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Wed 12 Jul - 0:25

Hi Isa Smile

Yes I agree (I think lol) science will be able to do many great things like for example rid the world of all human diseases that have plagued humanity for 1000s years but before it has a chance to do this we may use science unwisely to destroy all what is beautiful in the world if people don't question what we are currently doing. People have to think for them selves more I feel instead of just going with the flow.


Hi Alain Smile

I much like this photo of someone trying to measure the sky Smile This image sums up many of my attempts to do something I once though was grand but proved to be futile Smile

Hi Jacinto Smile

Too many things are not translating well for me so it is hard to know what is being said for sure here.

Through the Babel translator it would appear that many of the things I have said are being confused with my own beliefs.
This probably has a lot to do with the fact I am not speaking in simple black and white terms so I will try to simplify a few points.


1/ Fukuoka's views, expressed in the one straw revolution, are not my own.

2/ I believe big doses of reason would benefit the current world greatly.

3/ I am a great fan of science.

4/ I believe it is healthy to question the merit of science. To not question something's value because it has been labelled a science will only result in science being treated as a religion.

5/ I did not make a comment that artists who dissected bodies eat the bodies too.

6/ I do not belong to any cult, organisation or sect

7/ The code for Seamless3d is an expression of reason verified by reality. I doubt such code could be developed without this approach.

8/ I found, measuring proportions alone, can lead to ugly art and that it can be more productive to also let one's feelings act as a guide.

This does not suggest I am going outside scientific theory.
It is just that our minds are not 100% intellectual processors. Much of the data processing that goes on in our minds is done on a subconscious level and is non intellectual. For example a graceful dancer is processing a huge amount of data in their brain (while dancing) but they do not do most of the processing with their intellects, most of the data processing is hidden from the conscious mind.

Seamless has a number of aids and I have also developed a number of techniques to help measure proportions from a photo.

This page shows one way that evolved

http://seamless3d.proboards32.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1102142313

and see my more up to date page for how to utilise this technique:

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/immediate_av/background_guide.html#BackgroundGuide

Also with seamless is it quite easy to hand draw curves, take a photo of it and copy them using simular techniques but also utilising Seamless's curve generators to generate perfect computer generated curves.

Before I made the latest Sophie avatar I had many attempts and many disappointing ugly results. I concluded that I was over measuring everything and not letting my intuition guide me enough.

As a result of letting my intuition have more of a say I created the Sophie avatar which has the most beautiful face I have created yet. However I still think it is good to study photos in an intellectual way and this is something I plan to continue to do.
Intuition for me has nothing to do with religion, god or some supernatural force, it is simply part of our mind that processes data in a way we don't comprehend through our intellects. Our intellects are not as sophisticated at processing data as other parts of our brains obviously are. Had we been some other type of animal, where our intellects had evolved further, things might be different. Computers will, I am sure, be able to create the best art of all when they reach a certain level of sophistication and understand human nature better than our selves.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Wed 12 Jul - 13:20

Hello Thyme

merci pour ta réponse si précise ( j'ai remarqué que, si je fait attention à mon orthographe, le traducteur traduit bien le sens de mes paroles).
Je suis content de savoir que nous nous rejoignons sur tous les plans, et sache que ton
questionnement se rapproche du mien. Seule différence, c'est que je ne me limite pas à une seule
technique .
je suis heureux que tu aies ouvert le code de ton programme au monde et c'est cela qui m'a motivé
a communiquer avec toi et finalement j'ai bien suivi tout le sens de tes paroles,
ce qui me paraît discutable et bizarre:
Quote :
Computers will, I am sure, be able to create the best art of all when they reach
a certain level of sophistication and understand human nature better than our selves.

traduction automatique :
Quote :
Les ordinateurs , je suis sûrs, puissent créer le meilleur art de tous quand ils atteignent un certain niveau de la sophistication et comprennent la nature humaine mieux que nos individus.


il ne se pourra jamais cela , c'est du domaine encore une fois (pardonne moi) du religieux, et
on dirait un gourou qui parle. Et même si on pense que l'exemple de la "quantization midi"
va dans le sens, que l'ordinateur "ajoute du sensible", l'homme sera toujours plus humain que
l'ordinateur et se jouera toujours de "l'illusion du sensible" pour "le vrai sensible".

tu vois, quand tu dis que tu as raté un certain nombre d'avatars, et bien ces avatars ratés
contiennent sûrement le sensible bien que je les vois pas...
Very Happy
http://eol.free.fr/images/nurbs.wrl


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