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alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySat 22 Mar - 22:44

ok Thyme , it works well ,
easy to use

http://dumenieu.free.fr/vrml/avatarspublic/to_froze/janeseamless.wrl

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySat 22 Mar - 23:31

Thanks Alain dear Friend Mr. Green , I see your 2 dancing avatars (that look like Marilyn Monroe) and I can see they are animated using orientation interpolators but they could have been just as easily animated in avatar studio or seamless, this no one can tell Smile
The dress on the left I assume was tugged out in seamless? Some of the dress end triangles could be easily split in seamless too without the texture mapping getting messed up.
I notice however the feet do not seem textured correctly, is the original like this too or does it happen after importing her into seamless? I would not think seamless modifies the texture mapping in any way but I must ask this question Alain.
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alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySun 23 Mar - 10:04

well , I tried it quickly , Thyme ..
The original "jane" ( on the right - I don't know who made it ) was perfect when I imported it , textures etc ..

Then , I tried to modify some shapes _ some blue nodes :

by dragging some vertices ..
it was the moment when the texture was messed up a bit yes .
May be I had to split the triangles before ..

The second funny way is to rescale some blue nodes ,
exemple sein_d and sein_g LOL , I beg your pardon ...
or cheveux ( hair ) ...

btw what is ok is that it outputs all the gestures ....

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PostSubject: tugging   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySun 23 Mar - 10:49

It's okay, Alain-- I see what you tugged-- the parts I like. Laughing

Joking aside-- this is really interesting stuff-- a "wave of the future"! -- I will try it soon!

Bravo, Thyme!

Smile X
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySun 23 Mar - 11:11

as Alain and X joke on the forms I tested on a football man from avatar studio and it is ok it has more muscles now...... ptdr ptdr

good to modify our avatar and to give new gestures thank you

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alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySun 23 Mar - 16:46

LOL Colin Smile

btw seamless3s is more and more easy !

I hope we will have you , X , in that team with your mocaps Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptySun 23 Mar - 20:51

Ha ha isa! You tug the parts you like / I will tug the parts I like.
Laughing X
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 2:43

Hi X, Isa and Alain Smile
thanks for your feedback but I have never recommended importing avatar studio avatars my self
Avatars made specifically for Seamless3d are going to be much simpler to animate compared to imported blaxxun avatar studio avs and I much prefer to make my own avatars from scratch anyway because this is much more exciting and rewarding as an artist but everyone to their own.
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alain
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 13:34

indeed I dont know what to do by importing blaxx avas ,
but I tried that and it works well , as I said ..

here I played with a "jane" morphed , a shape just morphed ...
I added the hugly cat at the end LOL

http://visit3d.free.fr/alain/janecage.wrl

as my "dumenieu.free.fr" is down Sad recently

I used that visit3d ...

all my links on dumenieu.free.fr are dead for the moment ,
so some probs too on LouiZe

I hope it will be re alive soon Sad


God is dead , blaxxun is dead , dumenieu.free is dead ,

and it snows on a march 24 LOL


hey guys ! what you did to the planet ? lool

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 16:33

Looks like this bxx av is trapped by the cat Wink

Sorry Alain perhaps I am too passionate on this issue to be able to comment on it objectively Smile I do very much appreciate you testing the bxx avatar import feature but I fear without saying something my announcement sounds like I am suggesting importing bxx avatar studio avs are a good way to begin making avatars.
It is easier than ever before to re-engineer a bxx avatar studio av in seamless to make it have a better designed part structure (for easier animation in seamless) and of course one can make any object one's own work of art if enough time and energy is spent changing it but I still think its much more rewarding to begin by making a basic av like my build_av.smls example and just keep on improving it from there.
When does it get too boring or too difficult to do this is the question I ask myself.

Is it possible for me to have the wrl for this jane av before it was imported so I can see what went wrong with the feet's texture Alain?


Alain wrote:
God is dead , blaxxun is dead , dumenieu.free is dead

I could try resurrecting my seamless chat again but I am eager to write a new simple demo that shows how to make a "seamless" version of the simple build_av.smls av using nubs patches and the new Fuse node which I have not yet talked about in any detail.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 16:54

dont worry ,Thyme ,

as I said , I just tried the import blaxx ava ,
but I have no idea to use it , it was just a try

2 - to make an ava in seamless ins not very easy , but I am sure it is possible , LOl , btw I am busy with other things , may be one day I will make one Smile


3 - as I said the "jane" was ok imported in seamless , dont worry about that ,

4 - humm about blaxx it is a more long story .....

first : we must have news from them ,
and we havent , and I didnt took time to mail them ,

second : the question to still have a place on web to show vrml and meet ,
stays !

I hope that fabricator , hermi , Rick , etc etc etc continue to think about ...

here we are

https://closed.forumactif.com/3d-faq-and-news-f39/blaxxun-community-01-2007-march-2008-t1706-90.htm#64760


and btw , I could announce to you , dear Thyme ,

that we had a project , just before blaxx was down ,

a projetc about opening a gallery for web3d ,

https://closed.forumactif.com/3d-faq-and-news-f39/blaxxun-community-01-2007-march-2008-t1706-90.htm#64760

it is on the way ,

but we will need a place to meet / and show the art works Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 17:17

Alain wrote:
2 - to make an ava in seamless ins not very easy , but I am sure it is possible
In regard to what type of av Alain?
To make an av like the robot shows for the build av demo no one can find this too dificult? or am I mistaken?
Isa has made one and your students made some before this demo was as easy as it is now?
To make a "seamless" type avatar is going to be more of a challenge but I am hopfull something close to the simplicity of the build av demo can be achived by the end of this week.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 18:33

ok , Thyme , "what type ?"
I try to tell what I meant

I made quickly now a sort of ava

Seamless - Page 20 Seamlessavaanim

it is ok to move / anim parts


but what I mean is that it is more long to jion the vertices


Seamless - Page 20 Seamlessavaanim2


am I wrong ??

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 20:19

Ok Alain if joining vertices together is what you are referring to I can understand what you mean seamless is not easy for making avatars.
However in comparison to using what program?
Sure Avatar studio is easier in that it is already joined and made but to have full artistic freedom over the triangle and part structure and the colouring, I don't think importing an avatar studio avatar offers any short cuts.
And to make appealing art one does not have to begin by joining vertices. I have seen many very appealing 3d models where the artist never joined the vertices,
for example Miranda's Gata (cat) av:

http://www.seamless3d.com/gallery/index.html

which she made with a very primitive version of seamless3d and which was made with no help from a tutorial.

I find this so much more stimulating than a million avatar studio avatars but of course art is in the eyes of the beholder.
Miranda did not make this gata av in a matter of minutes but consider how much time is expected from someone to draw or paint a picture? why should we expect making 3d art to be any faster?
Perhaps the biggest thing that made vrml such a poor sucess story was the general attitude towards the amount of time one should spend making 3d art.
Making the task as easy as possible has a lot of merrit but once one starts advocating the importing of art made by others I feel strongly it is a backward step if it is at the expense of developing one's artistic skills.

Also one can make smooth looking joined models without actually joining the vertices together.
Look at my seamless3d reindeer made for techuelife island which used seamless branch joining for the legs and neck and which I never got round to joining the vertices for lack of time:

http://www.seamless3d.com/wrl/techuelife_island/ReindeerBaby.wrl

Ep also left many of her animals in her worlds this way, perhaps its lazy but in my opinion it is a much better alternative to importing geometry made by someone else that one does not understand.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 20:58

hey !! dont kick me LOL , Thyme !

I just tried to import blaxx avas because it was your new stuff in last version .
just to try ..
btw , as I said I dont know what to do with avas made by others ...

and I am ok that is is not necessary to always join the vertices ..

and .. btw .. what I like the more is modeling with tug radius lol ,
as potery ...

hum ..

I made that quickly to have you peaceful Smile

http://visit3d.free.fr/alain/seamless240308.wrl

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyMon 24 Mar - 21:30

I am sincerely grateful for you testing out the new bxx import feature Alain I am not kicking you for this.
I am just pointing out a few things that are not going to help seamless's popularity LOL but none of this should be a surprise to you?
Sorry, perhaps my voice has an aggressive edge tonight because of a sore throat I have just recently developed Sad I do hope because we are still in the warm autumn months it will go as fast as it came.
I am also very grateful for all the features you test Alain and the examples you make such as this quick pink gata friend I see waving at me,
Ah yes it is working I feel peaceful already Mr.Red
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyTue 25 Mar - 16:19

Dear Alain I can understand how what I said could have sounded like I was attacking you.

I fear now too it sounds like I am telling people how they must use seamless which was not what I wanted to get across, how people use seamless is their prerogative but this does not mean I don't have my own views.

I think forums have a lot of problems discussing anything controversial because of the long silence between the posts that leaves one wondering where the other is coming from and what tone in the voice is being expressed in the message.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyTue 25 Mar - 21:40

yes , sorry , I am used to answer after a minut LOL , because I am often connected ,
I didnt because I didnt knew what to say ( except that I hope your throat is better )

and about avatars I had not a great idea to tell , because I never tried really to make one .
well , I think I will put thet in my "list" for next holidays , april Smile


oupsssssss LOL , I am connected in LouiZE LOooLL ,
but I am alain Smile

I was just checking how all goes here , when not admin ,
and when my dumenieu.free.fr account is re working now Smile

so ... hello from alain , dear Thyme Smile

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PostSubject: BendyLathe bug fix for 2.134   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyWed 26 Mar - 19:45

Hi Dear Alain Mr.Red thanks for your reply but please don't worry about the time you took to reply, this is what is good about forums, the longer I wait to reply the better my reply is Mr.Red

BendyLathe bug fix for 2.134

Open Source Seamless3d 2.134 (including French and English versions) is available for download from:

http://www.seamless3d.com/download

Finally today after recovering from the worst of my cold I was able to start work on writing the simple FuseSurface av demo.
In using a BendyLathe to make the arm I soon found a bug that needed urgent fixing and so this is the reason for this quick update that has this bug fixed.
If you were confused by the BendyLath'e behaviour this bug was probably the reason.
This was another one of them bugs that did not occur until after seamless was closed down and reopened and it would only show if the BendyLathe's transform fields were set to any value other than the default values.

After fixing this bug I also fixed another less serious bug concerning the compile transform for the NurbsPatch which shows up when weights for the control points are set to values other than 1.

I have also made some improvements to the NurbsPatch's showAll field for this version.
I have made it so that the showAll field now gets saved because I found it annoying to have to keep unchecking this field.
I have made it so that when the showAll field is unchecked, hidden points can not be accidentally selected by clicking them.
I have made it so that when a SphereBuild, CylinderBuild, ConeBuild and any of the lathes get converted to patches the showAll field for the patch is unchecked. This should give a beginner who is new to NurbsPatches a better start when converting any of these specialised shape nodes to a patch. With the showAll field unchecked not only will there be half as many control points to deal with, the shapes will always be kept smooth and curvy when a control point is dragged.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyTue 15 Apr - 16:40

as I said , isa will have a baby Smile)

http://isaworld.free.fr/baby/baby.wrl

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyTue 15 Apr - 19:30

Your wrl is good minimalist curvy art Alain, it certainly captures the essence of a baby Smile

Coincidently my example nurbs patch av has a bit of a baby like quality to it:

Seamless - Page 20 Nurbs_patch_av

Open Source Seamless3d 2.135 (including French and English versions) is available for download from:

http://www.seamless3d.com/download

To see the new nurbs patch avatar demo, move the mouse to the top left corner of the 3d window and select nurbs patch avatar demo:

Seamless - Page 20 Demo_menu

The demo shows all the clicks to make a curvy animated avatar out of 3 nurbs patches converted from 3 nurbs lathes.
For a beginner NurbsPatches are very intuitive to use because to learn what they are all about all one has to do is drag the control points.
To make an animated av there is no need to go past operation 23 (Add eyes)
In getting to operation 23, the biggest challenge will be transferring the ownership. There is nothing difficult or complex about any of the concepts used here but it is very easy to make mistakes if one does not pay careful attention to the number of staves and bands used for the 3 patches.

Operation 24 to 27 continues for those who wish to refine their avatar. These operation show how to fuse the arm and leg nurbs patches to the torso so that the limbs join on more smoothly.

Operation 28 to 44 takes the refining further by editing the triangles at the flat stage so that the actual vertices for the arms and legs can be joined to the torso's vertices.

I have not written the tutorial to accompany the demo yet but here is the start:
http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/nurbs_patch_av/

This is perhaps the most important demo I have written yet because it reveals most why seamless3d is designed the way it is and it comes the closest to showing the techniques I used for modelling the seamless avs I made back in 2001.
What was the big deal with these seamless avs I made?
The triangles were edited at the flat stage (for efficient triangle structures) before being curved into shape using polygon independent surfaces and multiple meshes were tangently joined to create very smooth avatars for real time animation.

Seamless3d has come a long way since then when it was necessary to edit a C++ file. Today we have a GUI to perform all of the necessary functions and with the addition of NURBS the whole process has been greatly simplified.

In addition to the demo I have modified the TransferBCyl node to make it easier to import models from other programs that do not use neat rings of vertices at the joints.
The bring to life demo has been updated to take advantage of the new TransferBCyl but the tutorial is yet to be synchronised with it.

I have made it so that if the Alt key is held down while moving a part's pivot point, the children pivot points are not moved.

I have updated the beeline to animation tutorial:

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/beeline_anim/index.html

Bugs fixed:

Fixed a bug Lilly found which would not let the user change the staves or bands for a TorusBuild

I found that the immediate mirror feature did not work when moving the pivot points so I have fixed this bug.

Many thanks to Lilly for reporting the bug she found.
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyTue 15 Apr - 20:06

hey LOL

Quote :
Your wrl is good minimalist curvy art Alain

isa made the clothes ! isa !

I just posted the link because she was in a hurry cooking for 7 persons,
invités , with only one egg LOOOOL

ahah

well we will try this new seamless , Thyme ,

thanx !

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyTue 15 Apr - 20:20

Ah sorry Isa I did wonder if the curves had your artistic style Mr.Red
Thanks Alain & Isa Mr.Red
Enjoy the Egg Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyFri 18 Apr - 20:22

well ....

I think that I understand the way ...

I will help a bit isa


http://dumenieu.free.fr/louizeforum/seamless/alainav0408.wrl



Seamless - Page 20 Alainav0408

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PostSubject: Re: Seamless   Seamless - Page 20 EmptyFri 18 Apr - 20:34

i see all the demo of : http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/nurbs_patch_av/

it is impressive!! Shocked

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