Seamless

What! I was in a race??? lol if I was I fell asleep

I had a look at some of bricette posts Alain. Its interesting how throughout the world there are horsy girls. There was even at least one in my family Its probably only because of this fact I ever rode a horse lol. I have to be honest horses scare me, they look like such powerful animals and can be very temperamental. Making this horse though and focusing on little else has changed me quite a bit I noticed how my fear of horses went when I took the photo of our pony (I was in the same field as the pony and all by myself lol) for my background image. This is a good example of how passion can be used to overcome phobias

heheh Alain, with 8398 messages posted since April 2005!!!! I think you push your self to hard with these forums.

Its fine by me about these links, its very flattering in fact Alain however I have not yet got to the stage of animating the horse, I am still modelling it and have not done any programming on seamless for what feels like weeks now heheh. I don't berate taking time to make this horse though because when I think back over seamless's history, it is the content made with it that marks it's development in my mind most strongly. I love programming but if I only program a year goes by in a flash leaving me with very little to remember it by. Also I like to boast seamless is being designed by an artist who uses it, therefore I feel it is very important I take time to create content.
I fear by the amount of time I have taken to make this horse, some will be put off so I feel the need to point out this is the very first horse I have ever made and that every time I make something new, it is a valuable lesson for me, I learn a lot about what works and what does not and through making content I get many new ideas. Because most of my inspiration and ideas come this way, I warn against waiting passively for inspiration. Its good to take a rest to reflect over things but you have to be actively involved making stuff to be creative.
I remember Miranda saying when she first started with seamless she felt scared and did not think she could make anything from the wireframe sphere she was presented with by seamless. Her very first results looked little more than just some triangles that had been played about with but it was not long before she made her very impressive halloween cat that was made completely from scratch starting with just spheres , cylinders and using some shapes she made from seamless 1's circular curved lathes and circular bends. I would love to have a picture of this cat on my gallery page but its so hard to get in contact with Miranda these days

I have got scared a few times making this horse which is not a rare thing for me when ever I do art but I have also experienced many times in the past that perseverance almost always gets some kind of meaningful result in time. Its also important to remember tomorrow is another day and so long as we are patent and remain relaxed but not give up something new and exciting will come.

The animated images of the horse by Eadward Muybridge should be helpful for when I animate the horse Alain thanks

I am very pleased with how my new idea worked yesterday. I am not sure yet how good the mouth looks but the technique has proved it self

See how in the photo the mouth changes angle more than 180 degrees, yet it faithfully hugs the surface of the head at every point

I retried seamless !

trying a gromit like ....

not finished and no tail LOL

http://perso.orange.fr/alaindumenieu/artvrml/wrl/regromit22.wrl

at the end I had probs to output , si I used vrmlpad and lights to hide a bit all was bad LOL

...........
2 days ago I got from worldbuildersguide a mail about uploading avatars in seamless ,

I followed your tuto ? Thyme ,
and it works well ,

no lie LOL

LOL Thyme , about my 8 000 posts
( I am a bit ashame LOL yes

but don't forget that I use that part

http://louisedesavoie.forumactif.com/viewforum.forum?f=24

Quote :

LouiseForum :: CYBER SCHOOL

to work with my school , cyber teacher LOL hehehe

What a nice surprise Alain, thanks, few things please me more than people (especially friends) using seamless
I can see the resemblance to gromet and it looks cute heheh
I have had very few questions ever in regard to using seamless so please don't hesitate to ask away
I am curious to know why your file had trouble outputting, please send me the smls file so I can take a look.

Many thanks dear friend

PS is there a link top this "worldbuildersguide"? so that I can see what's being said about seamless?

PS don't be ashamed of sending over 8000 messages, I understand many are to do with your cyber school but what ever that's an amazing score!

indeed it was very funny and nice to play with / in that forum ,
it was a new tool , a new experiment ,

I don't care to have 150 000 visitors I don't know , LOL , of course ,
here were nice relationships .....

well .....

I copy all because it is a Yahoo group , I am not sure you could enter ,
( or with your yahoo account ??? if you have one .....

1 .

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worldbuildersguild/message/13195

Quote :

Brain Surgery for Av Studio av ..

I want to make an av studio av and then have the head removed and
replaced with a spazz node.

Is this doable and how?

Thanks!

Doc

I never answer in this group or another ,
but I don't know why I answered LOL !!

.........and they seemed seing nothing about ahahhahahah

2 .

Quote :

Re: [worldbuildersguild] Brain Surgery for Av Studio av


I made that 2 years ago to help some friend

http://dumenieu.free.fr/vrml/avatarspublic/to_froze/to_froze_an_avatar.html

http://dumenieu.free.fr/vrml/avatarspublic/to_froze/


no time just now to re read all that , but may be it helps

( ????????????? LOL )

3-

Quote :

Re: [worldbuildersguild] Brain Surgery for Av Studio av


It is difficult at best. The "mesh" of an avatar studio avatar is a jumble
of body parts collapsed around a central point. This compact form is
"inflated" into an avatar by a script. Try this experiment, edit a AvS file
and remove all scripting (or simply cut and paste the shape node into a new
wrl). View in browser. You will understand the meaning of jumble in this
context.

Ok, you want to edit that collapsed mesh... good luck by hand.

You could import into VizX3D and use the IFS editor to select the head
points and delete them. It is possible that you might be able to animate
further in Viz, but I've had issues. I might have the wrong version of
AvS... the VRML is slightly different in each version for various reasons.



Mr. Phillip Sand Hansel II

and 4 _

Quote :

Re: Brain Surgery for Av Studio av


Greetings!
I have had good luck using Seamless 3D to get a single mesh avatar
out of Av Studio. It's really quite quick and painless, and you even
get the avatar in a nice pose for rigging every time.

Here's the link:
http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/importing_avs/index.html

Cheers,
Dagfinn

when I got that I tried your link and it worked

( indeed it took me 3 times to to succes LOL
because it is necessary to read well what you write , LOL
each word

Quote :

...trouble outputting, please send me the smls file so I can take a look.

ok , by mail , but I had a *.sml buggy also at a moment
you know , I don't use all , the tree etc , on order ,

it is not my first attemps with seamless but I always worked with in disorder LOL

I guess it needs a more patient guy than me LOL

well I was happy to re try it ,

I begin to understand it a bit better

heheh Alain most are to scared to show me their smls files reminds me school days when a teacher would say "if there is anything you don't understand come and see me". Well I never understood anything they said but did I ever go and see them? no way lol
however I am different kind of teacher I will never delight in humiliating seamless students for using seamless back to front I think even with the best instructions we humans don't learn much in an orderly way. For me and I think most others, instructions only make sense after we have taught ourselves

PS
Thanks for the yahoo world builders guild link. It works fine for me but this could be because I have yahoo installed as you said.

may be more simple than by mail

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/rere3gromitmail.smls


stupid hierarchy I guess

Thanks for making your early smls file public Alain it is interesting for me to see how one will use seamless when new to it and going much from intuition. There is nothing really wrong with what you have done here by making multiple Seamless nodes for an avatar. It can still be animated this way if you put Seamless nodes inside standard VRML Transform nodes. (to see the standard vrml nodes in the new node bar click on the scene node)
You can treat a Seamless node as a standard VRML shape node this way.
However this will not take full advantage of how the Seamless node was designed because you can not then join vertices from one part to another.

Seamless crashed for me when I went to output your file so this is obviously a bug in seamless. How did you mange to output the wrl then alain? Lol

This is a good example too of how a program in development will crash a lot when it is not used the way it has been designed to be used because it does not get tested for all the possible different ways.
I will try to fix this bug for the next version though because multiple Seamless nodes should work OK and thought they did.

Perhaps one reason why you are using multiple Seamless nodes is so that you can color each part using the ColoorEffect like a standard VRML Material node?
It is possible to add extra ColorEffect nodes for each part too (with just one seamless node) but at the moment you will not see the different colors until the model is output as a wrl.
Because Seamless is a new program it has to be treated with kids gloves much of the time by what I mean is it works best when used the way I explain in the tutorials so I urge to try using just one Seamless node per model with only one ColorEffect and to try colouring the different parts as explained here:

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/immediate_av/art.html#ColoringVertices

Funny thing is on the very same day you started using Seamless Alain, so too had Lilly

http://www.seamless3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34

I much like the way you added a lot of character to your model Alain and modified the vertices. Is there any chance of writing a tutorial showing how to make it? I think it would be very good if you could because I think probably few are inspired by my simple "artless" examples lol.

Me voici de passage j'en profite pour vous adresser un petit bonjour,
et vous expedier cet vision des volumes du cheval somme toute tres academique.


et la meme plus grande :
http://eol.free.fr/images/chevalvol.jpg

hello jacinto ! are you in a cyber ???????

thanx for the horse ,

I asked bricette to look here , she really knows horses !

Thyme ,

Quote :

How did you mange to output the wrl then alain? Lol

of course I had to re do all from the beginnig , LOL

Quote :

Funny thing is on the very same day you started using Seamless Alain, so too had Lilly

yessss I saw that on seamless forum ,
but indedd I tried using seamless each year since 2003 ...now was my more long experiment ........

and I begin to understand something .........a bit ....LOL

I must say that most of the time it is necessary to read the tutorials .....
and after ....a bit intuition .....( witch is not always good LOL ......mine I mean hehehe


ok will try to write how I use it .........

be patient please .....I have a break from 1 to 16 august .........

LOOLL

just to try before my departure to Kiev :

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/

here you have

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/frenchtuto300706.TXT

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/frenchtuto300706.wrl

and

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/frenchtuto300706.smls









tell me where to put that on your forum , Thyme ,

I will copy it and the others when I will continue a bit ......

If you want that LOL

well ..trying the animation

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/

here you have

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/frenchtutoanim.TXT

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/frenchtuto300706anim.wrl

and

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/frenchtuto300706anim.smls


don't know why the "head is so low now ((

Hello ,
- Pour l'instant le modeleur de thyme ne me convient pas.
( tirer les points, que tirer les point ? )
la partie outil de modelage n'est pas assez évoluée,
il faut dire que c'est pas une critique a prendre mal,
je comprend qu'un seul homme ne peut pas programmer autant que dix.

- Pour l'animation, "si on peut entrer des formes venues d'autre modeleur",
comme tu le dis, cela devient tres interessant.
et surement que le genie de thyme et la dedans.

et je dois dire la verité l'animation , j'en fais c'est vrai, et cela m'amuse.
http://spain.free.fr
(il y a là tout plein d'animations 2D et 3D pour Bebes et d'autres pour plus grands.)
mais c'est pas le centre de mon travail artistique...
bon... je regarderai la parti animation de ton programme avec interet oui
dés que je prendrai le courrage de m'y mettre.

et aussi :
Pourquoi commencer le modelage par une hierarchie alors que
tous les autres modeleurs du monde commence par le modelage ?
n'y a-t-il pas confusion entre modelage et animation ?





http://schizzo.free.fr/cheval/cheval2.wrl

___________________________________
j ai pas resister
tres joli Alain c'est fais avec seamless ?



by Alain Dumeunieu
http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/ventilo3.wrl

Que CALOR !


J avis pas lu..; pardon
bon voyage alain, bonne vacances a Kiev.
moi je part dans le sud, je suis de transit a Paris quelques jours.
jacinto

ah on se demandait , moi et isa , où tu étais ,
LOL , jacinto
hello !


was doing that , trying seamless

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/terrainsmls.wrl

we can't discuss "witch modeller" etc etc ,
because everyone say that the best one is witch one you know well


on peut pas trop discuter quel modelleur est bon / pas bon etc ,
parce qu'il est souvent dit que le meilleur est celui que l'on connaît bien ...

Of course we do manythings by LOve LOL

and Yes , I always tried seamless from time to time because ......it is Thyme's .......

he oui j'ai toujours voulu utilser seamless ......parce que Thyme est un ami..

But the another reason is

1 . Thyme has an aesthetic , in his wrls , that no one has .....
and it is because seamless .....
He has what he built in seamless .....


Il a l'esthétique de son programme ....


btw seamless need to be patient , but it is the case for many softs , you must learn it .....

One thing I like is how all is smooth ...

( as metaballs OK , LOL , jicer ........ )

The other is .......ther colours ......
in this example I just learnt how to copy them .......

well ...I imported to a part node ......


well ......of course ....more you know ...more you have fun .....

Hi Jacinto and Alain
Thanks much for your French tutorials Alain , I have not yet had much of a chance to look at them yet. Before I write any more I want to point out how to fix the problem of your head sinking in to your torso when it is output as a wrl. This is related to the fact that you have the head scaled. I always try to avoid scaling in single mesh animation for now because of the extra complications that can result but it is fine to scale parts like you have so long as do a "compile transform" command for just the scale field.

To do this select the Seamless node

Then select compile transform/scale from the F10 menu



This will un-scale the head (or any part that is scaled) in the Seamless node but all parts will keep their size to how they were when they were scaled.

It is little issues like this is why forums are somewhat essential for beginners when using a program that is still being developed. Most beginners when they use seamless either think they have done something wrong or think seamless is to hard for them. It is sad that I am one of the few who uses seamless because then many assume you have to be a programmer to use it. This is not true at all. Seamless is still being developed and versatility is one of it's priorates in it's design. It is this combination that lets beginners try many ways of using seamless that is not yet supported or should be prevented from being used in the future. Many tell me they have tried seamless but that is it not for them without saying specifically where it was they got lost in a tutorial and do not post to the forum. I find this deeply frustrating and tragic to say the least. I welcome anyone to compare seamless to any other program because it gives me a chance to point out some misconception someone has about seamless or be able to fix a weakness in seamless if it exists. I can't accept seamless is not yet developed enough for beginners because beginners have used it with great success (including a 12 year old girl) ever since it first had a GUI (in 2002) and seamless is a lot more advanced since those early years. This does not mean beginners will necessarily experience seamless being immediately straight forward. No modeller I have used its like this unless it is a mix and match type program, I have heard people say they were able to make something with spazz within 5 minutes but when ever I have used it for about 15 minutes or so to make something that would interest me I have so far not been able to make anything with it. This is not because spazz is no good it is because I have not had enough time to learn how to use it. This is why I would like to write parallel tutorials using different programs to make the same model. How easy a program is to use depends much on what the user is trying to do and how they approach the program. If a beginer wants to simply mould a shape by dragging vertices, it is hard to think of any other program that could be any easier for somone who has no experience using a 3d modeller but this of course is just one aspect of seamless. Forums would liberate many to be a lot more creative with seamless but sadly few see forums as an option for them. This is why I always ask those who are enthusiastic to try seamless to keep in touch via the seamless (or alain's) forum and impress on them the importance of asking questions but I have largely been unsesecfull getting this message across so far.

ah ! the compile is ok ! thanx !!!!

I have the head on the shoulders now ! ahah

Well ...Thyme , .....look .....just an example :

a stupid one :

I wrote 8000 messages here , some was for fun or to say hello or both or just to type LOL

BUT , in some of them , in 2 , on 20 or 200 ....may be in 2000 LOL ,
I had put all my heart ! It was one day about Irak , one day abour some artist , one day about some Chirac etc etc .....

And nobody saw it , nobody had read it

Many times with isa we tought " but where are the kids ??? they read nothing here "
( and indeed I do know that they never read more than 5 lines..... LOL

well ..we were used to see that ..and sometimes one person came and said something nice .....
And it was great ......!

You made the best , and are still making it ; seamless .....and what he produces .....

Sometimes a stupid guy come , after 4 years , and will tell you :
I succeeded copying the colors !
And it will be great LOL ...


More seriously : how more seamless is easier to use
( for instance I have no memory for shortcuts but I see where are the bars LOL )
more ppl will use it ......etc.......

dont worry about Spazz , I kow it a bit , ....

spazz is good ....but makes Boxes LOL ( easily ')


Seamless makes ..seamless art

hello Thyme , Jicer A lain

Quote :

moi je part dans le sud, je suis de transit a Paris quelques jours.
jacinto

moi aussi depart jeudi pour le Sud alors Bonnes vacances a vous tous

for thyme : i said good holyday to Jicer and Alain ... perhaps you are in holiday too Thyme no? if is that good holyday too

isa

Hi Isa thanks for the holiday wishes Its winter time here and I am not exactly on holiday but it feels a little like I am because I have had fun focusing on my art and everyone else in Europe talking about the summer holidays reminds me of happy times

and Hi Alain and Jacinto
here is my work for the last 3 days. Apart from the ears which I hope are an improvement on my previous ears, most of my work has focused on trimming the vertices. Because I used seamless build nodes to make the shape, the triangles can be hand edited at the flat stage before they are curved into shape. I only had to hand edit the structure for the head (shown above left) and the torso (shown above right)



I have updated the smls file too:

http://www.seamless3d.com/av/horse.smls

I opened the horse.smls , to look at the tree how it is .....

I wondered how you get the torso and head planes

But I wondered too how you get that smoothly shape from many parts .....

So I tried the break and joined things ......and it works !!!!!!!!

ahahah I begin to understand how you work !!

seems great each day more


testing to join a cylinder and a sphere

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/vase.wrl

I made a Lineset by hand , just to show how it is

Bonjour,
- J'apprécie Thyme et son travail de programmation seamless.
- Je ne compare pas un programme avec un autre, et un fil de discution de ce type
ne m'intéresse pas.
- je ne suis pas fermé a un seul programme (outil) de modelage.
autrement dit , pour moi un bon programme (outil) n'est pas forcément celui que l'on utilise.
- je continue à penser que le programme pour la partie modeleur, de Thyme, même si cela represente un depassement de soi,
n'est pas assez evolué, car un programmeur seul, ne peut pas aujourd'hui construire un outil de modelage qui soit a la mesure de ce qu'une equipe de programmeurs et d'ergonomes et graphistes peut réaliser.
- Au revoir
jacinto

I can relate to what you mean Alain about putting all your heart into writing something and feeling disappointed to find no one wants to read it or if they read it they read just a few lines from the surface.
I have written tutorials that I thought were excellent for a time that explained things I thought many would want to learn about and had them on line for perhaps a year or 2 and feel they lived a lonely existence until they were taken off line.
I know one cant blame the audience and so I try to write tutorials that are more entertaining.
I learnt a long time ago to write as little as possible to explain anything and to use as many images as I can in place of words because only a few sentences can ever be digested in a day.
The seamless robot for demonstrating examples should in time make things easier to follow too I hope.

Again I am very curious Alain, can I see the smls file please? so that I can see how you joined vertices together. You say you looked at the horse.smls file so I am wondering if you used build nodes? which I have not yet explained lol so you would be the first perhaps after my mother to have ventured this far with seamless or did you join them how I explain on this page:

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/immediate_av/joining_mid_parts.html#JoinNeck

which is joining vertices using immediate (direct) editing?

I know you are busy packing for your holiday so no worries about replying till you are back

best wishes dear friend

LOL I will write a tuto for you , Thyme , ahahah

Well , it is that sort

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/immediate_av/joining_mid_parts.html#JoinNeck

but I found it in

http://www.seamless3d.com/tut/breaking_joining/index.html


and I must work more to understand about not breaking the colors ....

Indeed I add that I leant a bit short cuts and ....( of course ! )
it helps !

I haven't the "vase.smls , I had changed it in

http://dumenieu.free.fr/louiseforum/hand.smls

but it is the same way , nothing special
it was just to try when I saw your different shapes joined and sooo
........smoothly ..........
I adore that

That is seamless !

( must add that the horse from jacinto in nice too
it is true

Hi Alain and Jacinto
thanks for the hand.smls file Alain I am eager to take a look at it

Jacinto's horse is interesting for sure. I have never seen any vrml made with metaballs before (only pov-ray stuff) and no worries Jacinto, it is of course your prerogative what program you use. Saying that seamless is not adequately developed for modelling is of coarse your right and is of course going to guarantee my response here on this thread

Different programs will have strengths and weaknesses and naturally seamless has been prioritised for what I personally see as important for me.
I have learnt long ago it does not matter how many features a program has, it wont have the features I want


If I understood you correctly Jacinto you said you wanted to use seamless but only for animation. I am not sure why you single out animation. I don't know what it is like to use Blender for animation or modelling but I know blender can do skin mesh animation too, Just recently aerobics boy showed me such an example for blender. Blender can output VRML and X3d and possibly H-Anim nodes for skin mesh animation but probably only seamless and blaxxun avatar studio have the ability to output single skin mesh animation for blaxxun contact (utilising the setByVertexTransform function) unless this is done using JavaScript and standard VRML matrix functions which would slow everyone's computers down horribly in a multi user chat environment.

If you are interested I will be happy to set up a smls file for importing a 4 legged avatar such as your static horse for the purpose of being able to animate it in seamless.

However I think it is desirable to first make your horse legs for both the right and left sides be at the same pose.

Also there is the problem of not having enough vertices for the joints but it will still work like you have it, just it would look better if you had extra vertices here to keep the joints smooth when they bend.

best wishes